anonscans’ Debate Club

Before reading note the difference between a few key terms:

Stance, and opinion are not the same thing. Opinions are based on non-factual information while a stance is not. Also, interpretation and deduction are not the same. Interpretation is simply the explaining of data, but all not explains are not based on fact. Deduction is the breakdown of events through the use of law or principle.

Key Point – Just because you call something incorrect doesn’t mean it is. Words alone are not proof. Which is why counter points must be made using deduction and supporting inferences.

When you pair a character with anyone other than their respective canon counterpart you are making direct negative implications about them and the feelings they express in the series they are from and degrade them as a whole. By pairing them with other characters you are stating that the feelings they express in the series are weak or otherwise worthless. This is due to multiple factors, every action works on the same principle of cause and effect, meaning that any statement a third party makes about the characters has implications about them, whether the third party intended for them to be there or not. Remembering two things; implication means the result of logical consequence, and that there are three base states of action – positive, negative, and neutral. All action falls under one of those three categories. To degrade something means to make a negative action towards it. Note that you can make degrading implications about anything, not just living people, which is why it’s factual to say you degrade the characters by making negative implications about them. Also bearing in mind that all fan made work makes direct implications about the characters for another reason. It’s “fan” work, the characters being used are predefined and developed, if you were not making a statement on the characters you would not be making fan work, but original content.

Characters are concepts that exist as set-in-stone entities. Meaning once their story is told we, as third parties viewing the events, posses all available information about them. Granted their story does not continue in a canon sequel. But even then, as new information is given we as a third party have full access to it. Point being that once a story is told it factually exists as that story and no personal view or interpretation can change the events that actually happened. Just because fallible interpretations can be made does not mean all interpretations are valid. Which is why personal taste and opinion is not a factor when determining whether certain content is insulting or degrading to the characters involved. Also, fictional stories are limited concepts set within the parameters of its creators. People are not capable of limitless thought, so neither are the concepts which they make, which is why all questions about fiction have a finite answer set. The answer set may not be one item, but the set is finite.

A character is given worth through its story’s development. This is true because if a character is not developed they are considered a blank slate, and a blank slate has no worth. If a character is not developed then no story about it has been told, meaning it’s not even a character. Characters are abstract concepts and as such their value is also abstract, meaning it is not a numerical value but a conceptual one. Developed in a canon setting gives a character worth, so when that development is discarded for the sake of pairing the character with someone other than their canon counterpart you are implying that said development is worthless in the setting where choose to pair the alternate characters. It makes this implication because in the setting with the alternate pair the canon feelings of said characters are not being used. To not use the feelings is the same as saying the feelings have no worth because if the state of being used does not give them worth, nothing does. Just saying “I give the feelings worth because I like them” is not the same as actually giving them worth because you just stating something does not make it true. Similar to saying “I am running” while you are actually walking. Statements alone do not prove fact, the result of logical consequence proves fact as the results can be repeated and tested by multiple parties. Remembering that value comes canon development and implying that canon development is the same fan development is making a high to low comparison, thus is a negative state of action, and is thus degrading to the story and characters. Also, to be degrading does not have to have an actual effect on the content. “Degrading” is the only the type of statement you are making. It should also be noted that the term canon is used to describe what is factual within a fictional setting. And the one way to prove something is canon is to be able to support it through events in the series. Which is why the not all official content is canon, and some series have multiple canons.

The main reason that alternative pairings are degrading to the characters is that it implies their feelings are weak and disposable. If the feelings between two characters are strong then they would not easily fall in love with other characters, which is what alternative pairs imply as they make direct implications about the characters due to the nature of being fan made content. And the same as it was before making a high to low comparison about the strength of the character’s feelings is a negative action, and thus a degrading type of statement. Not all deviation from canon is a negative implication, mind you. Only concept that in some way implies negative things about the topic. In addition, not all interaction between characters is “shipping” interaction. Only specific events have romantic connotations, even in subtext based shows.  But, even under the false assumption that all interaction is “shipping” interaction pairing the characters with their non-canon counterparts is still degrading to them as you are comparing the high amount of interaction they have with their canon pair to the low amount they have with the alternative pair, again, being high to low, which makes it degrading.

It also does not matter if you “seriously” like the alternative pair or not, because no matter what you personally feel about the pair you are still making the negative implications about the feelings of the canon pair. Sort of like saying “I was just kidding about you being worthless and disposable, haha, it was just a joke.” The intention/verbal confirmation and logical consequence of the actions do not match.

To pair the characters with multiple people you are also treating them as interchangeable and disposable, which is highly insulting because it make many negative statements about them; that their feelings feelings are weak, that their character as a “person” has no real substance, that they’re not capable of being faithful to anything, etc etc. If you claim that any situation you put the characters in will lead to romantic development then that’s the same as saying all romance involving them is cheap. Basic math will tell you this. It’s a simple 1 to 1 ratio, as delta when exchanged is zero that mean everything is worth because no gain is possible. To simplify it further, you are claiming that there is nothing special about the canon relationship because it could easily be replaced. And of course, implying a strong relationship is nothing special is a high to low comparison, thus it is degrading statement.

In closing; please be aware of the difference between an opinion and a stance. An opinion is based on non-factual information. And all of the things stated here are based on the logical cohesion of events and their results and can be repeated by other parties using the same process, thus they are facts. Also, as stated before, just saying words alone is not proof of deduction, so simply calling something “wrong” is meaningless unless you support why it’s wrong. And if something is an opinion rather than a fact, you can prove it’s an opinion by pointing out the flaw in the logical process where a factor depends solely on a personal value rather than a value determined through the development of events

Advertisements

101 thoughts on “anonscans’ Debate Club

  1. Here’s some debate material: It doesn’t fucking matter who you pair with you, or what “negative comments” you make about them, because the “feelings” of the characters don’t matter.
    Supporting facts: THEY’RE NOT FUCKING REAL.

    Like

    1. I recommend you brush up on your reading skills. Because there is not a single place in that whole essay that states “hurting the characters’ feelings” is an issue at hand. In fact, it even explains how that’s not an issue at hand. Reread the part about how insults don’t need to have an effect in order to make then negative value flows.

      You also don’t need those quotes, because you can’t imply the negative comments are anything other than what they are.
      The problem isn’t about the characters, it’s about the people insulting them.

      Like

    1. Please, all comments are easy for me to knock down. You give me to little credit.
      But if you don’t trust my integrity you’re free to take this to any public site other than Dynasty or 4chan (where Troid has mod powers) and I will openly debate you there.
      I’m not bigoted and insane like Troid, a mod on 4chan, I have no problem making opposing stances publicly view able.

      Like

  2. I don’t know why people just want to post stuff to rile you. I personally don’t mind your stance and more power to you that you wish to defend your position. I just want to thank you for your translations.

    Like

  3. Everyone keeps on saying how this person is crazy, where as no one has actually made an effort in proving them wrong. You go anon! Fuck the others, honestly, what if we ship you guys with your parents? Isn’t that degrading your feelings? Crack ships also suck. What the hell are the people supposed to say to each other anyway? They’re best with their respective partners. Period.

    Like

  4. Regardless what people said about you I will always respect you as fellow anti-crack and doujins uploader. Thank you anticrack-kun.

    Like

  5. That’s um… really nice.

    >implying shipping characters together can be a sign of inteligence
    >implying more than half of chinese cartoons have no set-in-stone endings to cater shipperfags and thus earning more money through sales

    Shipping is not SRS BSNSS. It’s just fun. It’s not degrading to the characters themselves. Crack pairings can only be embarrasing to the shippers themselves if they get too serious about it.

    Like

    1. No, it is wholly a sign of intelligence and I will explain why.
      First off, yes, crack pairs are degrading to the characters, and if you actually read everything on this page you’d know why. So under the premises that crack pairs are insulting to the characters, that means you are claiming your like something, the characters, while at the same time degrading everything about them. You don’t understand your degrading them, so you just blindly like anything that tickles your whims. Thus showing superficial thought, thus being stupid.
      Now, onto your next statement. A story not having a finite ending does not mean it’s catering to shipperfags. One has literally nothing to do with the other. Because to cater to shipperfags means to give them content in which to work with that supports other pairs other than the “main” one. A series having an open end in no way gives additional support to pairs other than the mains ones. So good just setting up a really blatant false equivalency there.

      Next. Something doesn’t have to be “SRS BSNSS” in order to make a statement about it. It’s like calling an apple an apple, or the number 1 a one. It is just presenting facts. No amount of emotional states can change them or are relevant in anyway.

      >It’s not degrading to the characters themselves.

      Nice supporting evidence you have there. I hear making baseless claims and giving no reasons or evidence to back up your claims is how smart people hold debates.

      Let me try presenting facts the same way you just did.
      >there is now a wild raccoon inside of anon_of_u’s house
      Well? Did it happen? To you now have a new pet raccoon? Of course not. Because I just presented a conjecture with no supporting information.

      Show your work and the process you used on HOW it’s not degrading to the characters. As I have already shown the process that proves it is degrading to them, you can just point out the flaws in my reasoning. But as the facts stand, there are none.

      Like

    1. That’s because you’re using some sketchy proxy or VPN. WordPress as automated filters. Anyway. I’ll reply to what you said in a bit. Sorry I didn’t notice this sooner.

      Like

  6. At first, I thought you’re doing a good job by telling crack shippers to fuck off, because I did it by myself. But then you just become cancerous shit . Then I found out you can scan and translate doujins and I changed my opinion about you, but not for a long time. You’re still cancerous shit and should kill yourself

    Like

    1. That’s a lot of meaningless dribble, and a lot of question dodging.
      Literally every word you said is irrelevant to why you think it’s okay for Ayanero to portray the girls from Madoka and being depraved.

      What you said is also all lies, because you think “agreeing with me” will give your argument some kind of credibility. You’re the cancer because you’re not smart.

      You treat the characters like disposable garage, therefor you are the one in the wrong. If you don’t like the fact that I can accurately call out your negative qualities then that’s not my fault, it’s your own for having the negative qualities. You basically just want to be low brow, without anyone telling you you’re low brow.

      Like

  7. So if the characters are different from your personal headcanon than they are garbage? You’re only here who insult characters, m8

    Like

  8. No, they’re garbage because they’re portrayed as sexual degenerates in her doujin.
    Being a sexual degenerate is a negative quality. Negative statements are insults. This isn’t very complicated.
    Throwing random insults around and saying the word “head canon” doesn’t magically make you right.

    Like

    1. I remember you even raged on HomuSaya and HomuKyou screenshots from the movie. No artists are responsible for it. So yes, if your head canon is damaged somehow, you start to shitpost until you get banned from everywhere. Also learn some words besides “degenerate”. Repeating same word every time makes you look exactly like that.

      Like

      1. How can you be so dumb and arrogant at the same time? Not only are you still dodging the questions as to why you think it’s better in some way, you are not dragging unrelated garbage into the topic as well. Not only was it never just one person, this has been proven 100s of times over, the screen shots you are talking about were being used by as bait, that’s why they were called out. Not being of the characters in the screen shot. The intentions of those poster(s) was to both bait and insult the characters. It doesn’t matter what the screen shot was, because it was the poster that was the problem. Though, now I’m like, 90% sure I know exactly who you are.

        Repeating the same word, huh? Like you constantly repeating “mad” or “autistic”? Yeah, that sure does make you sound dumb. Degenerate is the only word that describes the situation. It’s not just a meaningless negative comment. It has an actual definition. TO be a sexual degenereate means to have shallow sex with little to no feelings behind it. This is something you can google, and it is exactly what Homura does. Learn to not be an idiot, and throw around buzzwords.

        And it’s funny, because that has nothing to fucking do with what we’re talking about either way. The whole issue is you treating the characters like trash, and you dodge this point constantly. What you incorrectly consider shitposting has nothing to do with it. You are literally not capable of rational thought. Rational thought is when you can connect one process into the next to form a provable conclusion, you just scatter shot random things you don’t like into the conversation and hope that they some how mean you “win.” You never address the actual subject.

        Like

  9. uh, you actually called Madoka characters a whores and it makes you the biggest shit ever. How you can even pretend to be a madokafag.
    I don’t even read your wall of texts anymore because it’s always the same.
    I wasted time on you, because I could probably get some doujins from you.
    I don’t need your doujins and scans anymore. You completely lost your last supporter, I find a way to get them without you.
    you could finish your pathetic life by killing herself

    Like

    1. What are you talking about? You’re the one calling them whores and sexually depraved. That’s what Ayanao’s doujin imply about the characters. That they have sexually lose standards. You’re the one agreeing with that portrayal of them, so you you are the one insulting them.

      Like, are you honestly trying to say that because I can recognize a doujin portrays them as sexually lose standards that I’m also implying the real characters have that as well? Do you know how stupid that is?

      I kind of like how you are proudly flaunting the fact you knowing making arguments while being ignorant. Not only that, but you’re too dumb to even reply to a post correctly. Not to mention you ignored everything I also said in the post you failed to reply to correctly. If you don’t read something you can’t say it’s incorrect with any form of accuracy. That’s just you being belligerent.

      For one, you were never my supporter. Secondly, there’s many other people who agree with me.
      Lastly, it’s obvious you are just trying to “win argument points” or whatever by saying you were one of my “supporters.”

      Also, work on your English, Woxx. Guess I’ll put off scanning those doujin you specially asked for. Because it’s obvious you are actually a very toxic person when I at first thought you might be reasonable. But I should have known better.

      You asked what was wrong with that artist’s doujin, and I told you. You just didn’t like the answer so you got pissy.

      Like

  10. You still didn’t answer why you start to shitpost when someone posts Homura with Kyouko/Sayaka screenshots from the movie. Bad artist?

    Like

    1. What is wrong with your brain that you are literally incapable of staying on point?
      I will spell this out nice and clearly for you. There has not been a single comment you’ve made so far that has been an actual reply to something that was said to you. You have dodged answering every single time in favor of just bitching about something else. You asked for a reason why people who were just posting screen shots got replies. You were told the answer, then you ignored and asked the same exact question again. And now you have avoided that topic yet again by now bring up something completely random.

      Get this through your very, very thick ESL head. Saying not to insult the characters is not shitposting. Shitposting means to make low quality comments, quality is determined by amount of accurate information conveyed in the message, I never convey incorrect information, thus it is not shitposting. You on the other hand sidestep, backpedal, and topic shift constantly while doing nothing but sling meaningless insults, something that conveys no information and servers to further no chain of events. And of course, it wasn’t even me posting in that exh gallery.

      Stay on point in your next post, or just stop posting. You contribute nothing, act like an asshole, then beg for scans. Do you honestly see nothing wrong with your behavior?

      Like

      1. Shitposting is also a messaging without any reason. It doesn’t matter how quality the post is. You can copy paste some random wiki page and the result will be the same.
        If you don’t like shitpost as word, I can call it just spam. But that’s what exactly you’re doing.

        Like

  11. No, it’s doesn’t mean that at all.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Shit+Posting
    1: The failure to make a constructive post
    2: The inability to add useful information to a forum
    3: Worthless overly offensive generally racists posts written in a manner which aggravates others.

    You’re literally making thinks up at this point. And it’s pathetic. My posts are always constructive as they are fully formed and on the topic of the characters in question. And my posts always have useful information because information is always accurate. If you want to argue it “aggravates” others, that’s a result of their own short comings, not mine. Because again, I say nothing that’s not accurate.

    The word spam means to repeat identical messages over and over. There have never been identical messages. Keep trying. Crack shitposters on the other hand have been will no for spamming and flooding threads with crack images whenever anyone says something against crack.

    You are DESPERATELY trying to find a something negative to associate my posts with other than “stop saying things I don’t like!!!” So you are grasping at every negative word you can think of.

    And you know what the best part is? The way your applying the word shitposting can be used to describe everything crack posters do. Because their posts truly are worthless as they are just meant to be flaming.

    This all in lieu of the facts you still haven’t proven or even attempted to show how you’re degrading the characters. All you done is bitch and moan crying the same thing over and over: “Stop saying things I don’t like!”

    Like

      1. No, it is useful to improving the quality of threads and informing people of the implications of their actions. You not liking it doesn’t mean it’s not useful. As always, you just saying “it’s not useful” and “it’s spam” doesn’t mean it is. You have to show HOW it is. Show the process in your reasoning.

        And you just repeating “you spam” again doesn’t make it true. Spam is repeating the IDENTICAL message over and over again. I know you’re stupid and ESL so google what identical means.

        And of course, your a projecting hypocrite. Because you are defending crack shitposters who do nothing but spam about off topic things whenever they see someone say crack is bad.

        Get this through your head, you are not a good poster, you contribute literally nothing.

        Like

  12. >And you just repeating “you spam” again doesn’t make it true
    So why does your speeches about crack pairings mean the truth? You can consider everything you want, but why people should care?

    Like

    1. What you’re doing is just constantly presenting your conclusion (it’s shitposting/spam) as a fact with no bases. I’m presenting the process anyone can repeat and reach the conclusion. Giving the process is what makes the information have substance. Because a conclusion just presented by itself means nothing. I’m going to assume you at the vary least graduated middle school. Remember on your math tests how you wouldn’t get credit unless you showed your work and how you got the answer? Pretty much the same thing here, except you neither got the answer right or showed your work (process).

      Let me make an an example to demonstrate.

      Woxx: You’re a red dog!!!!

      anon: No, I’m a purple dragon, because if you preform a spectroscopy you will see the particle frequency of my scales is 750 THz which is the color purple on the light spectrum. And if you observe my physical features you see reptilian traits, thus proving I am not a dog.

      Do you see the difference? In your answer there is only the conclusion you drew, but there’s nothing supporting why your conclusion is correct. In my answer I have a process that anyone could repeat and test in order to reach the conclusion I presented at the start, “I’m a purple dragon.” In order to prove me wrong you have to show how my process is flawed. That is how checks and proofs work in analytical discussion. It’s not about who cares. What you care about is irrelevant to whether the process previously presented is correct or not.

      You can choose to not care that you’re insulting the characters, but you can not choose to prove your not insulting the characters because you don’t care.

      Like

  13. By your logic liking crack pairings is fine and you simply try to force your opinion, because nothing is supporting your opinion like everything else.

    Like

    1. Read the very first thing it says on this page about opinions.

      Also, you’ve done the same exact thing you’ve always done. Just because you say “nothing is supporting your opinion” doesn’t mean it actually has no support. You have to show HOW it has no support.

      That’s leaving aside how nothing I’ve stated is an opinion anyway. You do understand that not EVERYTHING is an opinion, right? I fucking hate dealing with language barriers more than anything, because you misuse words constantly and don’t understand the replies given to you.

      I showed how crack pairs are insulting to the characters. If you want to prove crack is fine, that means proving there is a flaw in the process I used. Which you have never even tried to do. You just keep crying about opinions or whatever.

      Disprove the process I used to show how crack is insulting to the characters, and then you may have a point.

      You CAN NOT just say it’s an opinion to prove it wrong.

      Like

  14. You’re wrong from the beginning not because it’s your opinion, but because there are no official pairings in Madoka. Yes, two of them are much more popular than others and fit the series much better, but it doesn’t mean other pairings can’t exist. Maybe they are bad, but it’s still the same fandom.

    Like

    1. I really have to wonder how your brain even functions, dude. Not only is what I stated not an opinion, I also already explained in the starting essay that even if you falsely consider the pairs in Madoka non-canon, that you are still insulting the characters by implying the high amount of development they have with their “canon” partner is equal to the low amount of development they have with the “crack” partner. Again, same principle applies. Implying something strong (high) is low (weak) is a negative implication, thus degrading.

      This was, of course, already stated in the opening essay, which you didn’t read, yet claimed you were right anyway.

      Like

  15. They are all friends and can communicate with each other. I’m not talking about h-doujins, you start arguing even after simple image of two girls, where they can even hate each other. As I said you don’t give a shit about image’s subtext, but you still start to vilify it.

    Like

    1. I like how over a dozen replies later you still can figure out how to reply correctly.

      >They are all friends and can communicate with each other

      This doesn’t prove anything I said wrong.
      The only images that ever got replies were ones used as shitposting or ones that implied the girls were in romantic relationships with anyone other than their canon partners.

      Like

    1. You are all kinds of retarded and mad now. And all because you can’t have you’re god awful Ayane doujin. Jesus, you’re immature.

      Are you forgetting that you are from tumblr, and I’ve told you to you off more than one time.

      Like

  16. Oi, Madoka fandom on Tumblr is stirring up some bullshit.

    Hey, PMMM fans!
    I’m thinking of starting a 30-day shipping challenge for every non- MadoHomu or KyouSaya pairing! It’d be a lot of fun to celebrate some of the less-posted ships, and it’d be a good drawing or writing exercise for everyone who participates, I think!

    Don’t know whether you care or not (’cause it’s Tumblr) but I’m pretty upset about this.

    Like

  17. >getting btfo even from archive
    Hahahahaha.
    But I have no place now to tell you what a shit you are. Perhaps I overtryharded a bit.

    Like

    1. What are you even talking about? Do you mean how you can’t post in the archives?

      I swear to god, you are the most ignorant and retarded person on the face of Earth.

      Like

    1. Asked the admin over #archive.moe
      Says it’s a bug. You see how all the ghost posts are still there, right.
      Either way, forcing to someone to stop posting is not “getting btfo” you’re just meme spouting idiot.

      Like

      1. Even so, you are still pathetic scumbag that wasted half day shitting in madoka thread, but got all your posts deleted in one second.

        Like

  18. Hahaha, holy crap, crack-kun, what the fuck (I was the first to give you that name, not Troid; I choose it because I thought it was ironic). I finally read through those IRC logs. Do you realize even the board owner of 8ch/irc told you to stop? You spent a whole fucking year stalking mods and janitors to prove… not much. I haven’t seen anything really shocking. Oh, I learned Troid can mod on archive.moe. Incredible. I thought you were just trolling 4chan/a/ and 4chan/u/ from time to time with weird rants and the most obvious samefagging I could ever imagine. I even found regexes that hide most of your posts, god fucking damn regexes, they aren’t even turing-complete, yet your posting style is so stereotypical they spot you!

    But man, let’s be serious here, just how much time did you waste on all that shit? There are a lot of different activities that would bring your far more happiness that what you are currently trying to achieve. I can understand people making a big deal of morgellons, UFOs, Illuminatis, islam, or whatever else, since those are supposed to be huge, global threats. But people imagining and/or drawing ships that aren’t canon? Have you ever questioned why absolutely no one but you seems to care? If I were you, I’d build more rigorous reasoning than those posts of yours to support something no one else believes. And I wouldn’t be aggressive towards people disagreeing with me on top of that, because I’d know my views are really hard to argue for and non-obvious.

    If you want a refutation, I can provide you one. There are many small errors in your reasoning, too many to explain in detail, but there is one central argument, and I want to refute this one. Basically, you say crack-shipping insults the involved characters because they make a statement about them that isn’t in line with how their feelings were depicted in the canon material. I totally agree with the general idea that words and images have an effect on people receiving them, and on the representation they hold about the concerned characters. For example, when the staff behind an anime explains something new about a character during an interview and that interview is made public, it will sure change the way fans view that character. So far, so good. But you say this still holds true for non-canon material. This is where I disagree, and where you make a huge mistake. It appears to me that most people, apart from a very small subset of crazies, are perfectly able to distinguish between canon and non-canon. It means crack-shipping has no effect on how people see the canon characters, and you can’t say it’s wrong, since you admit that parallel universes are totally fine, which assumes people are able to know what is from what parallel universe. Since fictive characters are only made of shared representations who can’t really feel anything like actual human being do, then crack-shipping can’t be a negative act towards them.

    I doubt this will convince you, but I do hope in the long run you will manage to enrich your life so that eventually all of that will seem distant and dull. If you started by being nice and sympathetic toward people, you’d soon find it’s far more compelling than telling them they’re shit and that maybe you may not be as right as you think. Listening to other people’s ideas and correcting one’s view is the best way to be right in the long run.

    Like

    1. How can you type so much and say literally nothing of worth?
      Off the bat you pretty much flat out prove you are not mentally fir to even hold discussion, because your very first line is “I would never lie on the internet!!!”. This means you are intentionally trying to give your post “credibility” without proving anything. You can’t prove anything you said, let alone “lol xd I was the first one to call you crack kun xd”. And everything else you said is just rewordings of that: “I’m right because I can read your posting style” “I’m right because because I call you a samefag and in no way prove it” “I’m right because there are errors in your reasoning” “etc”. And do you know what everything single one of these things lack? Actual support, and backing with facts.

      Anyway. Your whole argument has already been proven wrong in the OP. It’s not about effecting people. It’s about how the characters are portrayed. And if the feelings of the characters have been portrayed as weaker than they are in the series then they have been degraded. And degraded feelings are must in all crack settings, otherwise the crack setting wouldn’t be able to happen.

      Either way. Stop lying and actually read, plus understand, the OP then come back and try again.

      Like

      1. if the feelings of the characters have been portrayed as weaker than they are in the series then they have been degraded

        This is exactly what I’m arguing against, and I say they aren’t degraded because people are able to separate the characters in the crack setting from the characters in the canon setting. Thus, the canon characters always remain unaffected and can’t be degraded. The fact I’m relying on is that on every anime IB, chat, and the like, no one but some weird people confuse canon with obvious non-canon. If that wasn’t true, you’d see people seriously believing Nanoha is mad in love with Yuuno and doesn’t care about Fate solely because they read a Nanoha x Yuuno fanfic. This almost never happens, even former supporters of Yuuno must agree there is no romance between them.

        As for your first paragraph, what the hell? Sure, you can assert I’m not who I’m pretending to be, or I have different intentions from those I claim I have, but riddle me those: on what facts are you basing your claim that I am lying? And if you were wrong, would my post be any different? I fear you’ve formed an irrefutable belief.

        And yes, although it’s on the Internet, although I don’t know you, although you pissed me off because of your endless trolling, I’m a firm utilitarian and would like you to be happier, because it is clear that wasting time trying to find god knows what on those IRC logs and being overly aggressive because people disagree with you deters you from activities you would enjoy more, such as being sociable and enthusiastically talking about what you enjoy.

        Like

      2. I wish that your average retard just had even a little bit of reading comprehension. It doesn’t matter if you can desperate canon and non-canon. Because where the degradation happens is in the crack setting. You want to know for a fact how I know you didn’t even read the OP? Because it straight up says in the OP that the canon characters can’t be effected by third party actions. In case you’re even more retarded than I think, you’re a third party in relation to the Madoka setting. The fact that you degrade the characters in your own portrayals is where the insult lays. You for some retarded reason keep tying to make this about what people think, even though you’ve been explicitly told multiple times that has nothing to do with it. Just because the insult has no effect doesn’t mean it’s not an insult. Think about the idiom insulting someone behind their back, also mentioned in the OP. If you have some person you’re forced to be around and they are constantly insulting your friends and family behind their backs, they are not being effected, but they are still being insulted because that person is still making the negative comments.

        Now tell me, if a person so stupid they can’t learn something after being told multiples and can’t even read the complete OP before commenting tells you they are smart enough to recognize typing styles what do you say? Right, you tell them they’re retarded. Not to mention said person is stupid enough to make dozens of baseless claims and attempts to present their conclusions as facts without giving the supporting process used to reach said conclusion.

        As for my proof you’re lying. The fact you said it at all is the proof. As to what it changes about your post. It speaks to your ability to debate in good faith and willingness to actually change. You attempt to give yourself support without actually validating it.

        Again, I pointed out how you’re far too stupid to recognize typing styles, because not only do you have low reading comprehensions, you’ve proven you don’t even read anything in full before forming your conclusions. As evident by the fact you claimed I claimed the canon characters could be effected even though it’s explicitly stated otherwise in the OP. Your method for “detecting” samefags is just glancing over a post and picking out a few terms related to the argument in general.

        Like

      3. Being so aggressive and unwilling to read someone else’s arguments in the best possible light is really a shame. You know, two people can disagree while being respectful, even friendly.

        Anyway, let’s continue.

        Because it straight up says in the OP that the canon characters can’t be effected by third party actions

        Yes, as you (should) have read, I immediately recognized that you agreed on that, and used that as one of the truth we could both agree on to elaborate my arguments on. The problem lies in it contradicting your following statement:

        The main reason that alternative pairings are degrading to the characters is that it implies their feelings are weak and disposable.

        I’ll have to elaborate and support how what people think is central here. “implies” is here the important word, because an implication can only be done in someone’s mind, and in this case relatively to a canon. There is no way for this implication to be objective since a fanfiction or a drawing aren’t formal systems, nor are able to do a simulation of the crack setting and the character’s feelings like a computer would. You need a human interpreting the text or drawing and making inferences based on their background knowledge and abilities about how the ink (or pixels) represents something that doesn’t exists, how the human mind works, about being able to show empathy with characters that aren’t present, being able to take into account the cultural background of the production of the texts or drawings, about how the crack setting relates and differs from the canon one, etc. Without that, there is no implication. Therefore, stating that

        Because where the degradation happens is in the crack setting.

        is wrong, since the degradations you are talking about are implications, and implications of this kind of writing and drawing can only exist in someone’s mind, the degradation happens in the reader’s mind; the writing or drawing portraying the crack setting a is indisputably cause of this mental event, but it doesn’t bear that mental event itself.

        As a technical side note, it should be added that the canon has to exist for the crack setting to be compared against; for example, if we imagine that the Madoka franchise never existed, and someone makes a short story that coincidently showcases the exact same setting and characters of the Madoka franchise in our universe, then in the alternate universe there can’t be any implication that anyone’s feelings are weak and disposable.

        So, we need a human mind at work, and this mind must know quite a lot. Now, since

        The fact that you degrade the characters in your own portrayals is where the insult lays.

        and since that degradation is an implication, this degradation can only happen is someone’s mind relatively to a canon. But what characters are degraded exactly? If we agree that almost everyone is able to differentiate the canon character from the character from the crack setting, then the degrading implications coming from the crack setting are only about the non-canon version of the character. Not only this is perfectly coherent with the idea that

        characters are concepts that exist as set-in-stone entities

        but it explain how people can easily agree on it: since people are able to differentiate between the canon and non-canon versions of a character, the canon version of the character remain unaffected in people’s minds. Then how could the canon character be affect? The most coherent way to save your reasoning would be to suppose people confuse the canon character and its non-canon versions, leading to infer from crack settings degrading implications about the canon character. But when looking at forums, chats, and the like, it’s hard to believe most people are unable to do that. On top of that, since the degrading implications can only happen relatively to a canon, you have to know what is the canon. So supposing that people can’t know what implication applies to what version (canon vs non-canon) of a character entails people shouldn’t be able to grasp the degrading implications in the first place. Therefore, most people differentiate the non canon version of the characters from the canon version and always apply the degrading implications to the non canon versions.

        Now I’ll show you how my views are not only coherent, grounded in reality, but easily extend to another of your counter argument:

        Think about the idiom insulting someone behind their back, also mentioned in the OP. If you have some person you’re forced to be around and they are constantly insulting your friends and family behind their backs, they are not being effected, but they are still being insulted because that person is still making the negative comments.

        Easy to deal with that, though a bit technical. I’ll show you how you can recreate the usage of « insulting » using the consequences of the insulting utterances on people’s minds. We’ll use several cases of increasing complexity until every possibility has been taken into account. Firstly, if the person the insult is aimed at is present and hear it, this most certainly has negative consequences on this person’s mind, and if other people are present, this has negative consequences on this person’s social status. Secondly, if the person the insult is aimed at isn’t present, but people knowing them are, then the insulting utterance may has negative consequences on the person’s social status, which in turn has negative consequences on the concerned person. Thirdly, if I’m alone and insult someone, one can argue it creates in my mind a disposition to act in a detrimental way toward them. Fourthly, there are many other cases we haven’t taken into account, but the third previous ones will help us to formulate a more general answer. I’ve introduced the term “disposition” in the third case, which only denotes a possibility. The second case can be made more subtle noting those consequences aren’t a necessity; they’re only possibilities, though likely possibilities. This means insulting isn’t only about actual negative consequences, but also about possible ones. So, we can say that a necessary property of insulting, if we want to take into account the idiom “insult behind their back”, is “an utterance that has possible negative consequences on the person it’s aimed at and its social status”, which may as well be stated this way “an utterance that has negative consequences on the person it’s aimed at and its social status in at least one possible world” (see http://www.iep.utm.edu/mod-meta/ for an explanation of this restatement).

        About that

        As to what it changes about your post. It speaks to your ability to debate in good faith and willingness to actually change. You attempt to give yourself support without actually validating it.

        Sorry, but it isn’t an observable trait of my posts, solely an inference about my intentions. You can’t justify a proposition about the empirical world without empirical support, unless it is a logical truth, such as “the propositions A and non-A can’t both be true at the same time”. Moreover, you can’t base your inferences about my words on what you think what my intentions are, since it leads to a circular argument.

        Like

      4. I had my answer fully typed out then my browser reset suddenly and I lost it all, and I don’t have to rewrite it all, so this is an abridged version.
        blah blah, your a a hypocrite, muh respect, you started this all off by calling me a troll, blah blah.

        You’re backpaddling and lying about what you originally meant because now your whole argument is “no~~~~ what you’re actually thinking is thiiiiisssss~~” Your whole argument is based on something you can in no way prove because you can’t prove what anyone thinks. You can at best prove the results of their actions. No one is confusing the canon and non canon version of the characters. This line is drawn clearly many times.

        You don’t understand that a story does not only happen in a person’s mind. It is a mass of data, no more, no less. Just because the story is not a physical concept doesn’t mean it’s not a finite concept. That’s like saying the answer to 2+2 is subjective because the concepts of numbers are not physical, they are just sets of data used to express information in a coherent fashion. That random blu ray disc of Madoka sitting around will always have the exact same story on it no matter how many different people watch it. And that story is what you’re degrading in your crack setting.

        You’re using the words imply and interpret wrong even though their definitions are spelled out in the OP. To imply means to be of logical consequence. If a character is walking down the hall and turn left then that’s that. They turned left. No amount of “that’s just your opinion bro” can change that’s what’s actually happened in the story. And this principle can be applied to everything that happens in the story, it just gets more complex.

        It has never ever been about you degrading the actual canon characters, it has always been about the type of statements you make as a third party. Because as a third party making/using fanfiction (parody content) you have to be making statements about the characters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody
        >in use, is a work created to imitate, make fun of, or comment on an original work, its subject, author, style, or some other target, by means of satiric or ironic imitation

        This means that all fan made content must be making statements directed at its original source, If it’s not, then it’s not parody content, it’s just original content. You’re basically saying “I’m talking about [story], but I’m not actually talking about [story].” The statements are not inline. This is where the whole problem lies. Your statements are negative, and they are about [story]. Because again, they have to be about the story or else you wouldn’t even be talking about the story in the first place. The whole premise of fanwork is “what if.” And in order for their to be a “what if” you have to be comparing it to the original and making your statements directly related to it.
        It’s not about you effecting the characters, it’s about the comments your making being negative. And they are negative as a result of your other setting portraying the character’s feelings weaker than what they are.

        >Moreover, you can’t base your inferences about my words on what you think what my intentions are, since it leads to a circular argument.
        Good thing I said that’s exactly what I’m not doing. I’m not saying anything about your words changed, I’m making a statement about the quality of person you are.

        Like

  19. o8rJTpxstN
    I hope you understand now how pointless to talk with him. His ego and self-complacency are so huge that he will never accept any good comments or advice. He only understands when you put his face into shit.

    Like

  20. I deleted all my posts there, because unlike you I don’t want to shit in archive. Also you are so pathetic, you can’t even tell truth in your request page and delete my post.

    Like

      1. And that you’re cancerous for lying and not being brave enough to say you hold no fucking importance to our fandom.

        Like

      2. So I was kuro, now I’m Potato. Who is next? It will next guy who you don’t like, I guess o8rJTpxstN

        Like

  21. Sed, I said to stop doing that copy and paste nonsense. You’re not even doing anything smart because what you’re saying doesn’t even fit.
    Here’s what you wrote so far http://pastebin.com/MBdE6Wzh.

    If you want a real answer, act like an adult. I’ll just say this, though. Having a tumblr does not mean adhering to the site’s mentality. And the mentality is actually what’s wrong with it. Stop making blatant logical errors.

    Like

  22. I like it how you ignore everything I say to you in Tumblr. I’ve asked you two questions and reposted one post and told you my arguments and you’ve just ignored them. Anyway, I’ll write some of them to here too, because I want people to see them. And maybe this way you’ll actually answer me.

    First, you keep telling that treating characters like tools is disrespectful. But what are the characters if not tools? A character is a tool created by an artist to play a role in the story. A character doesn’t think or feel anything but thoughts and feelings given by the artist. It can’t think by its own and it is not alive. This is the first very important thing. The second one is that texts doesn’t interact with each others. If something happens in a fanfic it doesn’t change the events in other fanfics or in a canon story. If we put these two facts together it’s obvious that I can write a fanfic where Homura loves dogs and an other one where she hates dogs and there would not be a discrepancy. Those would be two completely different texts with nothing to do with each others.

    Now, if I wrote a fanfic (because I write very much, for example a lot of fanfics) where Madoka and Sayaka are going for a date, that doesn’t change anything in the canon story because the canon story and the official artists don’t even know my fanfic exists. It’s like it happens in an alternative universe where MadoHomu and KyoSaya don’t exist. In the canon story Kyoko and Sayaka would still like each others and Madoka and Homura would be able to create new universes and keep loving each others as much as the artists want. In my fanfic MadoHomu and KyoSaya wouldn’t exist but that doesn’t remove said ships from the canon story. As I said it’s like it happens in alternative universe where canon ships are not canon.

    Oh, and P.S. You once said that writing is not as decent fanart as for example drawing and that “literally anyone can write”. I strongly disagree. If writing is so easy why aren’t everybody famous best-seller authors then? And if you mean that anyone can write like “madoka loves homura lol” then I have to say that everyone can draw too. Everyone can put a pencil on the paper and draw something. Everyone can put their fingers onto keyboard and write something. But the quality is a quite another matter.

    Like

    1. The irony in this post is sickening. Because if you, who is telling me I ignore people’s arguments, didn’t ignore what I have said many times in the past, you’d already have the answer to your statements.

      The argument is that you are degrading the characters within the crack setting you are creating. No one has ever said you change the canon characters. By degrading the characters within your crack content you produce/support low quality content thus lower the total over all quality of the “fan”dom. Calling you a fan is being nice, because you don’t actually care about the characters, you just care about amusing yourself. And that the whole problem. You. You are the problem, you are the supporting degrading the characters (in your fan settings, thus making low quality content). And your English is so bad. Jesus.

      Also, the answer to writing nonsense was answered already as well. In the same place you read it the first time. Again, irony. Because you ignored the actual argument that was made.

      Like

    1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echolalia
      “defined as the unsolicited repetition of vocalizations made by another person (by the same person is called palilalia).”
      “an indicator of communication disorders in autism”

      Like always, !Akemi. You have mind destroying autism. And also like always, you will refuse to list a single reason why anything you say is correct. No one wants you alive because you constantly attack people, harass them, and ruin the fandom.

      Like

  23. Man, I got an honest question for you:

    Doesn’t it scare you that you feel so passionate about and invest so much time into an issue that so very few people in real life care about? Like, don’t you ever sit back, look at these enormous, intricate posts that you type out, and think, “…Fuck, did I just lose these precious minutes f my life over this topic AGAIN?”

    Obviously you have some talent and skill–you can speak another language and have enough confidence in that to show your translations to the world. That’s one hell of an ability to have, and one you should be proud of.

    I think if you devoted your energy into translations and stopped engaging in this conversation with anyone and everyone who baited you or disagreed with you, you’d be a little bit happier as a person. Or to put it another way: on your deathbed, will it bring you more happiness to think about waging an argument on the internet, or the joy you brought to people through translating material they would never have been able to read?

    Truth be told, my initial plans were to just write something very short; probably just “aw nigga, you crazy”, or something. But then I got to thinking about the person behind these posts, and it really bummed me out. So I decided to write something a little more genuine and heartfelt.

    Hoping the best for you, Mr. Scans.

    Like

    1. I swear, people how brag about their willful ignorance are the most pathetic people alive.
      Just remember this, you’re a cancer and you shit up the fandom just by being in it.

      Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s